Does anyone have experience with getting Sectional charts to be
read on the new version of See You? I could use any advice. I went
to the See You forums already but I haven't seen the info I am
looking for. Can anyone offer assistance? You can email me at the
address above if you care to contact me personally. Thank You. D

Hello Doug,

You can get the charts themselves (in CMR format) on my website at http://www.soaringdata.info. Select the "Sectionals" tab, and download the CMR files containing the charts you want. Install them by selecting (in SeeYou) the Tools->Raster Maps menu, and then pressing the Add button.

You can contact me with additional assistance by using the Webmaster link on my website.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

Geesh Doug, they're not on your company supplied iPad?
8-)

Doug,

A little short of your goal with see you but check out the mobile app foreflight. Exceptional chart based navigation for iOS and Android.

Why SeeYou does not run on these devices remains quite an interesting discussion topic.

Speaking of that...

Sean
F2

At 08:52 01 July 2013, wrote:
>Geesh Doug, they're not on your company supplied iPad?
>8-)
>
Now that is funny. Better get that Ventus flying. Last I heard its still
for sale. D :)

On Monday, July 1, 2013 4:26:30 AM UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> Doug,
>
>
>
> A little short of your goal with see you but check out the mobile app foreflight. Exceptional chart based navigation for iOS and Android.
>
>
>
> Why SeeYou does not run on these devices remains quite an interesting discussion topic.
>
>
>
> Speaking of that...
>
>
>
> Sean
>
> F2

Not sure about Android, but iOS has user minimum interface standards that must be adhered to. SeeYou would have to be redesigned *wholesale* to comply with any minimum user interface standard. In the mean time, you can use iGlide.

In all honesty and my personal opinion, SeeYou's mobile "program" has been exactly the same for nearly a decade. It could use some serious usability and graphics improvements! It could use a completely new user interface!

For example, how many clicks does it take to change a data field in SeeYou vs. say....XC Soar? Something like 10 stylus clicks for SeeYou and a touch hold and a click with your fingertip for XCSoar.

Does SeeYou utilize touch screens well? Not really. SeeYou, in its defense, was designed for Windows mobile which no longer exists and is no longer supported by Microsoft. The Windows mobile user interface was built around the "stylus," not a true modern high resolution touch screen as is standard on today's devices. Etc, etc. Stylus's are a pain in the bottom in a glider while flying.

Adhering to Apples interface standards for iOS apps might not be a bad thing at all for Naviteer...;-)! It would likely force a far better user interface. But yes it would take effort to deliver a new UI from the Naviteer people.

I also think the iPad mini is a perfect platform for SeeYou and all of these Soaring mobile apps. SeeYou on an iPad mini would be incredible. SeeYou on a Galaxy Note 3 or similar Android Phone would be excellent as well (what I run XC Soar on today).

You can always keep the legacy software available for those who dont like change. ;-).

Naviteer could offer its customers the best of both worlds. A new modern mobile version and the "classic" Oudie.

All of this software (SeeYou, ClearNAV, Strepla, etc, etc), in my opinion should have an iOS and Android version...it should be purchased via Google Play or the Apple App Store, not thru dealers. This is already how iGlide and XC Soar is purchased today. Updates are automatically pushed out to the users and they are not inconvenienced when needing to update their software. Etc, etc, etc.

Sean
F2

On Sunday, July 7, 2013 9:26:07 AM UTC-6, jfitch wrote:
> On Monday, July 1, 2013 4:26:30 AM UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:
>
> > Doug,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > A little short of your goal with see you but check out the mobile app foreflight. Exceptional chart based navigation for iOS and Android.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Why SeeYou does not run on these devices remains quite an interesting discussion topic.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Speaking of that...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Sean
>
> >
>
> > F2
>
>
>
> Not sure about Android, but iOS has user minimum interface standards that must be adhered to. SeeYou would have to be redesigned *wholesale* to comply with any minimum user interface standard. In the mean time, you can use iGlide.

Per usual Sean F is obviously right about everything that he asserts and I would be a fool to try to debate any of the points that he makes.

I would only add that the disadvantage he cites of SeeYou and CE being stable and unchanged is simultaneously SeeYou's unique advantage.

Every time a program or operating system is changed, new defects are introduced, and all previous testing of the system, and the confidence engendered by that testing, should be discounted. People that use programs may not understand this, but the people that make programs certainly do.

The fact that SeeYou has been used for years, by many pilots, in many scenarios counts for something. It further suggests that SeeYou is usable and useful.

I agree with Sean that touchscreens are nice, but my arms are not long enough, nor steady enough to use them in a sailplane. I suppose I could hook up a trackball to an Ipad Mini?

On Monday, July 8, 2013 7:10:12 AM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Per usual Sean F is obviously right about everything that he asserts and I would be a fool to try to debate any of the points that he makes.
>
>
>
> I would only add that the disadvantage he cites of SeeYou and CE being stable and unchanged is simultaneously SeeYou's unique advantage.
>
>
>
> Every time a program or operating system is changed, new defects are introduced, and all previous testing of the system, and the confidence engendered by that testing, should be discounted. People that use programs may not understand this, but the people that make programs certainly do.
>
>
>
> The fact that SeeYou has been used for years, by many pilots, in many scenarios counts for something. It further suggests that SeeYou is usable and useful.
>
>
>
> I agree with Sean that touchscreens are nice, but my arms are not long enough, nor steady enough to use them in a sailplane. I suppose I could hook up a trackball to an Ipad Mini?

And yet, SeeYou requires the use of a touch screen in the worst possible way - tiny little buttons, often keyboard entry, scroll bars on the side a fraction of a finger width wide, etc.; nearly impossible even sitting in an easy chair at home on the coarse Oudie/Avier/V2 touch panel. At least XCSoar made the buttons large enough for an adult finger to hit. These are like bad Windows 3.1 apps.

You should try iGlide. The interface is slicker than runny snot, honestly decades ahead of all the others. I would like them to put an iGlide Demo version on the app store for free, as I think a lot of people are not willing to risk the money to try it. A demo version than only did the simulator that was free would get a lot of people hooked, I think.

I sold my Oudie this winter and use iGlide or XC Soar. SeeYou gives me eye strain for some reason.

On Monday, July 8, 2013 10:07:26 AM UTC-6, jfitch wrote:
> On Monday, July 8, 2013 7:10:12 AM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
>
> > Per usual Sean F is obviously right about everything that he asserts and I would be a fool to try to debate any of the points that he makes.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I would only add that the disadvantage he cites of SeeYou and CE being stable and unchanged is simultaneously SeeYou's unique advantage.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Every time a program or operating system is changed, new defects are introduced, and all previous testing of the system, and the confidence engendered by that testing, should be discounted. People that use programs may not understand this, but the people that make programs certainly do.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The fact that SeeYou has been used for years, by many pilots, in many scenarios counts for something. It further suggests that SeeYou is usable and useful.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I agree with Sean that touchscreens are nice, but my arms are not long enough, nor steady enough to use them in a sailplane. I suppose I could hook up a trackball to an Ipad Mini?
>
>
>
> And yet, SeeYou requires the use of a touch screen in the worst possible way - tiny little buttons, often keyboard entry, scroll bars on the side a fraction of a finger width wide, etc.; nearly impossible even sitting in an easy chair at home on the coarse Oudie/Avier/V2 touch panel. At least XCSoar made the buttons large enough for an adult finger to hit. These are like bad Windows 3.1 apps.
>
>
>
> You should try iGlide. The interface is slicker than runny snot, honestly decades ahead of all the others. I would like them to put an iGlide Demo version on the app store for free, as I think a lot of people are not willing to risk the money to try it. A demo version than only did the simulator that was free would get a lot of people hooked, I think.

I paid a few pounds for iGlide Light out of curiosity. I also have XC Soar on a Nexus 7. For the record I way prefer SYM on the GliderGuider to either.. I like the UI, I don't understand your issues with the touchscreen (I never use the stylus), I like the ability to customize the display and to create custom buttons, I find task setting or changing easier than with any other software I have tried, and anything I want to do in flight is easily done. The documentation and support are not perfect but better than for any of the others.

For what its worth, when I first tried SeeYou Mobile in its early days I preferred to stick with Winpilot, but in due course SYM got better and WP did not keep up. There may come a time when I feel that LK8000 or XCS have overtaken in ease of use and presentation (I accept they are already more feature rich) but that time is not yet. Meanwhile I hope for a little changed version of SYM to run on Android to give us a better choice of upcoming hardware.

And also meanwhile I am using the fabulous LX9000 in the glider I am flying most.

I presume that eye strain is down to how the display is set up - font sizes, backgrounds and so on. We should have a way to compare the screen setups we use (the choice and setup of airspace and waypoint files is equally significant). I like SYM, but what I really like is the way I have it set up.

On Monday, July 8, 2013 5:54:34 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
> I paid a few pounds for iGlide Light out of curiosity. I also have XC Soar on a Nexus 7. For the record I way prefer SYM on the GliderGuider to either. I like the UI, I don't understand your issues with the touchscreen (I never use the stylus), I like the ability to customize the display and to create custom buttons, I find task setting or changing easier than with any other software I have tried, and anything I want to do in flight is easily done. The documentation and support are not perfect but better than for any of the others.
>
>
>
> For what its worth, when I first tried SeeYou Mobile in its early days I preferred to stick with Winpilot, but in due course SYM got better and WP did not keep up. There may come a time when I feel that LK8000 or XCS have overtaken in ease of use and presentation (I accept they are already more feature rich) but that time is not yet. Meanwhile I hope for a little changed version of SYM to run on Android to give us a better choice of upcoming hardware.
>
>
>
> And also meanwhile I am using the fabulous LX9000 in the glider I am flying most.

The Avier that I have has a very course touch screen that requires a fairly heavy touch. The small radio buttons in SYM on several of the screens are nearly impossible to hit with a finger. You can try, and try, and try, then try a carefully positioned fingernail and eventually get it. I don't know if it is Avier, or *this* Avier, or what. Something like a swipe requires enough force to practically shoot the thing out the window.

Any user interface experience is going be colored by personal preference. I find SYM to be verbose and disorganized. Reminds me of a bad PC program from the '90s, which, or course, is where it is from.

Quite a few people at my club now have GliderGuiders. I have not heard any complaints about the touch screen (a couple of years ago early Oudie's had bad touchscreens, but that was solved with a new screen driver.

I understood that the Avier was the same device as the GliderGuider. I now wonder if that is correct - it would only take a different screen driver to account for our different experiences. Does anyone know?

Quite a few people at my club now have GliderGuiders. I have not heard any complaints about the touch screen (a couple of years ago early Oudie's had bad touchscreens, but that was solved with a new screen driver.

I understood that the Avier was the same device as the GliderGuider. I now wonder if that is correct - it would only take a different screen driver to account for our different experiences. Does anyone know?

Quite a few people at my club now have GliderGuiders. I have not heard any complaints about the touch screen (a couple of years ago early Oudie's had bad touchscreens, but that was solved with a new screen driver.

I understood that the Avier was the same device as the GliderGuider. I now wonder if that is correct - it would only take a different screen driver to account for our different experiences. Does anyone know?

On Wednesday, July 10, 2013 5:51:13 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
> Quite a few people at my club now have GliderGuiders. I have not heard any complaints about the touch screen (a couple of years ago early Oudie's had bad touchscreens, but that was solved with a new screen driver.
>
>
>
> I understood that the Avier was the same device as the GliderGuider. I now wonder if that is correct - it would only take a different screen driver to account for our different experiences. Does anyone know?

I have much less trouble with it on XCSoar, probably because the buttons are typically large enough for an adult finger. But the touchscreen seems to be a pressure sensitive thing very similar to the original Palm. If could fix it with a new driver, I'd sure like to get that....